As you know, Clemz is in the midst of beta testing a « sales management » feature that will, among other things, help Vinted PROs with their accounting and invoicing.
One point that doesn’t seem easy to decide is which date to choose when you are a PRO to take a sale into account in your turnover and declare it to the state (for VAT or corporate tax):
A) The purchase date? This is (in theory) the date on which the PRO issues their invoice to the customer. But at this date, we are not yet certain that the sale will not be canceled later.
B) The payment date? This is the date on which the PRO has confirmation that the sale can no longer be canceled/modified: they then receive their money from Vinted.
Example: if a sale takes place on April 15th but is only finalized on May 6th due to delivery times and the 15-day withdrawal period, the choice of date will affect the declarations (turnover, VAT):
In case A (purchase date), the sale is declared in April and if the sale is canceled in May, it must be corrected retroactively.
In case B (payment date), the sale is declared in May.
If you are a PRO, answer the following poll and state in the comments what type of structure you have (micro-enterprise? EURL? SASU?) because I think micro-enterprises choose the payment date while others tend to choose the purchase date.
I put the collection date because it’s more than just the cancellation of the sale (at worst, it’s not complicated to indicate in accounting). Vinted blocks the transaction for 14 days, and on their statement, they put the date the sale was finalized. In fact, from a financial point of view, as long as the sale is not finalized, it’s as if it doesn’t exist.
Whereas on eBay, the transfer is made as soon as the shipping label is printed, and in any case, as soon as the sale is made, the money is put into available funds. So there, I put the purchase date.
In fact, I mostly do it based on how it’s noted on each platform in order to be consistent. But hey, Urssaf won’t trigger an audit for that (as long as it’s declared…)
I am self-employed, so I use the date of receipt for my declarations, but…
As part of a CRM, the information I will consult daily is the number of sales (i.e., purchase date) in order to know the turnover generated during the day or week (it is important to have this on the CRM’s homepage).
The dates of receipt can be consulted in another tab once a week or once a month (as is the case with other competing software).
Hello, I voted « purchase date » while being a micro-enterprise, because I invoice directly at the time of purchase and when the package is not collected / returned, I issue a credit note that I deduct from the following month.
To stay on the initial question of tax declarations. In B2B, revenue is accounted for on the invoice issue date. This is not the date of receipt of funds, which is typically 45 days after the invoice date.
When the company prepares its corporate income tax (IS), it considers, for example, invoices issued in December as revenue in its P&L (profit and loss account). However, it also indicates in its balance sheet which sums of money are awaiting payment (= accounts receivable).
For the sale of goods, VAT must be paid in the month of invoicing, regardless of the actual payment date. In other words, VAT is paid in advance to the state. (For services, the payment date is awaited)
And when there is no billing? Everything below €25. For example, a baker.
In any case, if the VAT exemption threshold is lowered, I don’t see how the AE status can survive without changing everything. This status is only interesting because there is an exemption.
For my part in SASU, so sale date:
To know that it is possible to opt for cash accounting (so on the date of receipt of payment) if one realizes less than €818,000 in turnover excluding tax/year (trading activity threshold). It is necessary at the time of the balance sheet to add the invoiced turnover not received with this practice to reconstitute the actual annual turnover (total sales even if not received).
This threshold also corresponds to the simplified VAT threshold (turnover 12). An annual VAT return with two semi-annual payments.
On the other hand, if the VAT is on normal actual basis, VAT returns must be made monthly or quarterly. Since part of the turnover is generated by selling outside France, there is self-assessed VAT on shipping costs (the famous cents that are added to each sale) which must be paid with the VAT return. This payment is impossible on an annual VAT basis, so there is no real choice but to switch to monthly/quarterly VAT.
I think it is more relevant to track by sale date rather than by date of receipt of payment. This corresponds more closely to the obligations of professionals. For micro-businesses, it is enough to track one’s Vinted wallet, which is quite simple without tools, or one’s bank account if one empties the wallet at the end of each month.
The ideal would be to have both; sale date and date of receipt of payment.
I am a qualified accountant if you need more information.
To move beyond AE, I think taking a short course on statuses and their subtleties is necessary. Something I’m wondering about because it’s so easy to stay small.
Hello Lucile and Clement
Since the invoice is dated the same day as the purchase, VAT must be validated on that same date.
If the sale is canceled, it will simply be canceled.
Thanks to the invoice number, it is easy to reconcile it with the VAT already paid: this is equivalent to a credit note, which the software will automatically deduct during the declaration for the following month or quarter.
Hello!
I’ll answer a bit off-topic: in my case, not being subject to VAT (micro-enterprise with small turnover), I only declare as soon as it’s cashed, visible in my bank account if you prefer.
I’m in the business of selling goods (I don’t know if that helps). There is a minimum delay of 14 days before payment is received. And since Urssaf tells me to declare « money that comes in », that’s all I do!
In accounting, it’s the purchase date that counts. That’s the date we put on the invoice.
And as some have said, if there’s a cancellation of the sale, we must issue a credit note.
For example, if we make a sale on the 29th of the month, we must declare it on the turnover for the relevant month.
Whether the payment has been received or not.
The money cashed out is requested, not the pending money (the money that is transferred to the bank account). They haven’t specifically thought about the platform system that holds the money for a while; the money doesn’t belong to you as long as it’s with Vinted. After that, it’s debatable. There’s also the debate about the Vinted invoice with fees or the amount given by Vinted. For my part, I only base myself on the money I receive gross from Vinted. In fact, I don’t think Vinted’s situation has been taken into account by URSSAF; they consider that we declare the money cashed into the bank account, period. However, in my opinion, they can check the Vinted turnover declaration and compare it with the money received. But frankly, are they going to bother (unless there’s a lot of money involved)? It’s already a headache for us.
URSSAF checks are carried out if the declarations are significantly lower than the amount transmitted by Vinted. To do this properly, it would be necessary to clarify by finding specific Vinted audit cases. Or ask Vinted what is sent as a tax file. This needs to be clarified once and for all.
In the meantime, note your gross sales invoiced to the customer, your income collected upon finalization of the sale (this is what I personally give to URSSAF), and the amounts received in your bank account. If audited, you must provide everything with your calculation methods. But correct me if I’m wrong, I think everyone does their best. I am looking for cases of Vinted professional seller audits, but without success so far.
Another thing, if you look at the Vinted income statement for your previous year, it indicates the item amount and not the remainder. I assume this is what is sent to the tax authorities. However, I declare the amount I actually receive, including the small bonus given by Vinted. (Because it goes into the bank account)
If you now sell on eBay, then, on the other hand, I note the gross invoice amount, including shipping costs, then I also note the amount transferred to the account (for me) to justify bank movements. There, you must declare the turnover, not the net amount received, because on eBay you actually collect the shipping costs, they go through your bank account.
Example: if a sale takes place on April 15th but is only finalized on May 6th due to delivery times and the 15-day withdrawal period, the choice of date will affect the declarations (turnover, VAT):
As a PRO, on what date do you declare a sale?
